tv [untitled] December 16, 2011 9:31pm-10:01pm EST
satchels when nobody dares to ask we do our t. question more. are you ready to rumble joining me on the panel tonight vince colonnade senior online editor of the daily caller eric berne strategic communications consultant partner bullfight strategies and brian darling columnist of human events dot com and director of government studies at the heritage foundation ok gentlemen let's
get started it looks like the government won't be shut down but whether or not one hundred sixty million americans are going to get hit with a thousand dollar a year pay tax increase is still up in the air the republicans first said oh i will will not hit them with this tax increase if you'll just. give us a pipeline across america that we consult you boiled to china or something whatever i don't get the whole d.c. deal there and then the speaker house john boehner came out today and doubled down of that he said that this bill comes over to us we will make changes in it and i will guarantee you that the keystone pipeline will be in there when it goes back to the united states senate so you know we had two wars republicans didn't need balance or pay on that we had tax cuts the problem is didn't need what's the deal why why can't they just say hey we like tax cuts we're going to give these people a tax cut i don't get it brian what am i missing here i think you're missing
a few things first of all the keystone pipeline provision it's really a political provision what does it have to do tax cuts so it's not going to it's not going to get built as a result of it it just forced. the president to make a decision they're going to end up cutting a deal it's going to pass the tax cuts will happen unemployment benefits will get extended it will probably be a short term deal so it's much ado about nothing because everybody's going to agree and they're going to cut a deal right at the if it's short term you're going to be right when i say that i mean if it's a fait accompli why is weaker boehner you know putting this poison pill into this payroll cut and israel tax extension you have tax cut i mean you know hundreds of millions americans depend on this i find it shocking that the republican party today you know has found a tax cut that they don't like and that they've been fighting against for some time and they've had to really be kind of dragged kicking and screaming to the table and i think it really says something about their priorities and this is really about defeating obama it's about defeating the democrats be american people are paying the price with a vengeance was it you know when you guys start hating tax cut it's so when it
comes to do i find the most interesting thing is the way the liberals are actually taking on this debate because it sounds remarkably like some talking points that they could have used during the bush tax cut debate you know if americans are in a struggling economy democrats and liberals more broadly could have come forward and said hey you know we want to be supportive of extending what are known as the bush tax cuts but the biggest hold up was a political one calling it bush tax but also actually there was a difference the democratic philosophy was if you give tax cuts to millionaires you get larger swiss bank accounts if you give tax cuts to working people they go to stores buy things you stimulate the economy you want republicans aren't against the tax cuts they're they're against raising taxes on one segment of the economy to cut taxes in another segment and why do they like the x.l. pipeline because it's going to create jobs and let's be fair first all the x.l. pipeline has nothing to do with this debate it's being thrown in to make it more difficult for the president for the democrats it's political nothing else but you know the difference is we have
a republican party that does not under any circumstances want to raise taxes on millionaires and billionaires. no matter what but you know they will certainly be willing to not you know extend this payroll tax extension for hardworking middle class americans and i think that says a lot for the american it was one of those an obvious point conservatives obviously do believe in supply side economics that you're talking about these are not raising taxes that's right there there is there is that there are some ideological differences that exist but you mention that the real poison pill associate with the keystone pipeline is not true i mean the fact is a poison pill you are just learning even though exists a poison pill exists in politics in order to get legislation passed in one house or both and have at one point your political opponent kill it that's not going to happen with this is not a poison it ok i don't condone you know also democrats want that broadly and when the speaker says we will not pass a payroll tax cut extension in the last you approve the keystone pipeline today you know call it what you want to call it political terrorism call it a poison pill they don't know which one of the other thing is here i know you guys
support supply side economics you know i was when i was an investment banker i mean i have an economics degree and you know you can support unicorns too but doesn't make it real does it make it true supply side economics we saw it during the bush administration was a total failure where we were bleeding seven hundred fifty thousand jobs a month or so speaking speaking of the x.l. pipeline and its impact on the environment which i think is the biggest concern the at least environmental many progressives have this is the worst congress this republican congress has last year in the history of the united states according to the house committee on energy and commerce which is controlled by republicans one hundred ninety one different page now they're bragging about one hundred ninety one different occasions house republicans voted to do considerable damage to the planet including one hundred fourteen votes against the e.p.a. twenty seven votes to block any kind of action on climate change seventy seven votes to block any protections of clean air twenty eight votes to block any
protections of clean water forty seven votes to block protections of public lands all of these votes are during these. costliest year on record from natural disasters caused by global warming that all of these votes will exacerbate so hala how many how many americans are going to die before republicans wake up and say hey wait a minute maybe we should you know get to the end here today and go back to the values that richard nixon is president in the name of environmentalism is been a job killer he won't allow any drilling in the gulf of mexico he won't allow the x.l. pipeline actually doing licensing those things i'm asking about the republicans in the house yet what a their vote you're saying that their votes are causing global warming and causing the deaths of americans there's no evidence that if the federal government were to pass any of these global warming initiatives that you support like you know funneling money to. fisker automotive and all these wasteful energy companies that that's going to change the environment at all it's not going to do anything how is it when ninety nine out of one hundred scientists i mean i don't know how many you
have to put out there but it's literally i mean that's on it's like it's like ninety nine out of a hundred well that's one of your guys now one hundred scientists say hey yes climate change is the real factor that we've got to deal with manmade or not he wanted to authorize the economy to say that you are going to remain in the middle of the economy when in the last thirty years hundreds destroy jobs as has progress actually destroy the economy i think what we see a great example that you raised to the automotive the amount of gallons of gas that a car needs to go i mean your car goes yes and i are you engineer and so is mine so we shouldn't have gas coheres in the exiles in our environment you know what incentives are and all of them has become a broader vehicle for government regulation that's where republicans are all the while they're just always trying to produce no no it's an exit where you start it's basically what do you come to the if you're going to become as an environmental regulation is sort of become a euphemism for ways that businesses are going to be more and more regularly over that with a growing growing branches when brian mentioned wind when you're talking about
cutting off oil drilling in the gulf that's a real incident now people have been applying it to fact the defacto moratorium the a minute. gratian is put in place has led to many drilling companies to actually go to south america millions of million dollars of lost revenue. and absolutely lost jobs and then this goes back to your point on discussion to are the same exact but while we'll see how this narrative plays out a part of it is playing out in the debate his last night's debate there's a little clip highlights from our low lights whatever you want to call it for muslims to be. i'm counting on the people of iowa to catch fire let me tell you i hope i am but tim thibeault i will caucuses i'm not going to sign those silly pledges and you know what else i'm not going to show up with a donald trump debate and i would just like jefferson jackson lincoln and f.d.r. i would be prepared to take on the judiciary if i'm trying to did not restrict itself and what it was doing nothing could be more dangerous than the comments suggesting that there's nothing this been said by a book by these folks on the stage about me that i'm not going to hear one hundred
times from from president obama ok so new gets my vote because because neither one of us think the judicial review or judicial supremacy are legitimate but you know that's a little arcane for the average voter polls are showing that mitt romney is. going to win and the new bump seems to be fading nobody else seems to be you know rick santorum is not sliding in there i didn't really see it but week after the iowa you know you got new hampshire on the tenth you got south carolina the twenty first january thirty first is florida what's going to look like after this after january any any thoughts well i think this is just a demonstration of how unpredictable and annoying the the starter states are i just you know i would voters and new hampshire voters i mean the guys are spoiled this is not something that people want to say often but it's true i mean the voters themselves are very spoiled by the process who knows what can happen bachmann was able to pull out at the you know the last second a ames straw poll win that was let's just you put you by the bows that i mean
shouldn't she kind of yeah but i think it's indicative of this and i will there is that is that we don't have a clear picture to support all about to argue with you this is a question genuine. isn't it you say there's spoiled but we have representative democracy yet we have people who represent us and we want them to spend a lot of time really evaluating issues isn't that what people in iowa new hampshire doing well what it does is it leaves the rest of the country wanting i mean these candidates go in there and they spend watson lots of money to appeal to very very few voters and the end of spend a lot of time in somebody's living room when in fact the rest of the country is left wanting so i don't know i guess the country's i don't think it's an exceptional place to be a lot of mr garrett how do you think it's going to end up looking i can't say i mean the i think bachmann has a strong a strong ground game in iowa that's why she won the straw poll i think that ron paul clearly you know is looks like he's surging in the polls in iowa but the. party will never let him take that no i agree but i think there's a question about how strong the institutional public and party really is i don't think we're dealing with the same republican party that we were dealing with five
ten years ago i think would be even a question eight years ago that mitt romney would be the nominee i think that this republican party could actually nominate a newt gingrich and i think that's why we're seeing so many different republicans kind of come through the cycle and we've got the darling of the week and then they faded earlier that week and then they faded i'm not sure that this republican party knows what it wants to do brian is it possible i'm curious your take on this the minute we have left on this topic is it possible that fox has been kind of pumping up a candidate after candidate is one falls just to keep the the churning going so that they can keep the eyeballs on the network and that this is all just a business deal on the part of i don't think so it's a great conspiracy theory but i don't buy into it yeah i mean this is been a fascinating debate i mean we've noticed we've seen the candidates go up and down herman cain is no longer even a candidate i mean it's amazing how many front runners we've had and i really believe that the voters of iowa many of them haven't even made up their mind so who do you think is going to be. marco rubio's
a running mate. if i had to bet i have no idea i really assume that the save money is on mitt romney or i look you know. marco rubio talk about validating your theory talk about you know my coming from media matters i mean he's a candidate and now a senator created out of whole cloth by fox news yeah well i think it's back to the vice presidential nod and i think you're probably right vince. troubling is from going to venture a guess but between i guess the beginning ridged most likely i think romney has a few more vice presidential nod in his direction ok meanwhile let's get out of problems with democrats we had we you know. democrats had. senator ron wyden from orgon. either do something brilliant which seems to have a lighted all of us or eluded all of us or totally step in by you know maybe i don't know paul ryan and those three are all bottles of wine what's the deal you know it's this tourney medicare into a public option and and doing it like there is in the schools where health
insurance companies can say now i don't think i want to take that person they're too sick and medicare ends up being a ghetto and i mean what is what is going on with this is there and the republicans are loving it you know which make convinces me that ron wyden is totally now your suggestion the wise actually was the first time i really thought about that maybe ryan actually applied him with drinks three hundred bottles of wine to get him to you can begin to get these billionaire hedge fund buddies who i am cheap but. i think what i think really what you have is an example of where hopefully hopefully a lot of these discussions can be contentious especially when it comes to politics but what is always argued for is middle ground and in this case i think the democrats nobody argues from and i think the democrats have a challenge in actually framing this is anything but middle ground i think that same goes for republicans i don't care to have medicare they don't need anything else the american people have medicare you know and they won't have anyone out there is no longer relevant in this and your question is medicare you know i mean
like it or not it's the most efficient health care system in the world twenty two and five percent in the strait of cos you look at these private sector solutions and that you know wyden and ryan are talking about twenty twenty five percent of ministry of cost is going to ask for help to drive up the costs. that we now have fifteen trillion dollars debt most of which is driven by our entitlement programs that are out of control with all of the unfunded liabilities we have some back to you know you know you work in the sense that that's because you know if that's even true that's because both republicans and democrats have been robbing from you know the kitty for you know decades so it's not it's not a pretender to the bush tax cuts it's because the two unfunded wars it's because medicare part. you can't negotiate with drugs you got a job where if you were going to have a recession you were going to giants great scott where life raft medicare can never know you've got a giant screen in the studio where's the graph where it actually shows where entitlements are compared to something like a bush tax hike if we don't i'm sure i know you have on the nazi that i want to why you are against elderly people having
a choice in what they can do what decisions they can make and they have how they had a choice and you know you don't want to make a choice and ignore the as you want them to having medicare and nothing else but just were provided some a choice so they can go to the private sector and maybe get a better plan but it's a choice they're going to pay more for me my question about you know the why do you want the algorithm you need more for what's probably going to be less recover democrats ultimately got here that they have to work with the big evil republicans and talk to their democratic base and say hey you know what we were do we're disavowing widened i guess i'm in that side of obamacare because obamacare is structured the same way i think that our republican friends just can't stand that obama passed a health care bill and that's why we're hearing more and more talk about obamacare because there are these guys as they said they just don't like government whether it works or whether it was obama scarcer all this well all that's what a lot of plans was yeah yeah but where you are is the single payer system and it works and then that's what we're going to be left alone is not a great hard question here we're out of time the t.s.a.
has gotten a little note happy ok rapper freddie gibbs says the t.s.a. agent left a note that in his bag after bag was randomly searched and marijuana was found the note from the agent read. and luckily gives got to keep his pot course this harkens back to another note left by a t.s.a. agent woman's bag after the agent discovered a certain type of vibrating sex toy that no red get your freak on girl so we know republicans and presidential candidates republican presidential candidates are flying all over the country all the time checking their bags so the question is what notes from the t.s.a. might they find in their bags some possible choices where you can come up with your own. a new gingrich may find a note reading nice blaming or be that romney may find a note reading not boxers or briefs but magic underwear or c. ron paul me if i don't know reading. it i think.
it's probably the most realistic but that this is probably the most realistic i would hope though that maybe they offer some like get out of like taking off your shoes free cards and things like that i still find it completely could be ok. for your community as i am sure i would i think i think every single one of the republican candidates needs a note that says please buy an economics textbook and read it because the american people really really are going to depend on that they will probably look. at it comes from the us constitution it's called the fourth amendment maybe these guys need to read it a little more closely ok and my answer is rick santorum i find i know reading it what's with all the lube in your bag should i google this that's why it's you that. said they were all hanging over their sorry no pun intended. there brian thank you all for being with us great to have you with us. coming up in tonight's daily take i'll take a stab at developing the latest popular myth about our founding fathers.
and what drives the world the fear mongering used by politicians who makes decisions to break through that sort of to be made who can you trust no one who is human view and with a global missionary see where we had a state controlled capitalism is called sasha's when nobody dares to ask we do our t. question more.
there's a myth floating around right now about our founding fathers and the men who wrote the constitution the framers and that myth is that america was created by rich white men who wrote the constitution to protect their own interests and the interests of other wealthy rich white men like themselves it's a myth that's convenient conveniently used in the right by people who argue for more corporate power and government and more advantages for the wealthy by saying that's simply a continuation of the intent of the founders and framers of the constitution and it's also a myth used on the left especially during times of economic crisis when it seems like the rich are getting richer the poor getting poorer so therefore it must be that our founders set up this problem when they wrote the constitution in fact this
week i had a young occupy wall street patriot on my show echoing this myth. but the occupy movement e-file and that we're all little bit younger movement seems to be a little bit more organic grass roots and we're willing to look at the constitution and say well hey maybe this isn't exactly right maybe it really was a business model of sorts proposed by the original one percent in america should see how they could make more profits you know it's entice him to think that way especially at a time when nearly half of the members of congress are millionaires and laws are being passed that exclusively benefit millionaires and billionaires at the expense of the rest of us and also seems like it's always been that way and there's some sort of fatal flaw in the constitution to keep it that way but it's not true it's the myth of the super wealthy founding fathers of course there were very very rich people in america at the time of the revolution but they were not the ones taking
part in the constitutional convention in fact all of the truly rich people here in the seven hundred sixty s. fled this new nation during the revolution and went up to canada or back to britain there wasn't a millionaire in today's dollars living in the united states until the seven hundred ninety s. a generation after the revolution george washington was one of the richest of the founders as kevin phillips points out in his book wealth and democracy george washington was no more with our wealthy swire british terms in terms of lifestyle assets and disposable income the founders were upper middle class at best head toward the end of his life washington didn't have enough money to buy the slaves his wife inherited so that he could set them free which he genuinely wanted to do and jefferson died in bankruptcy these guys weren't bankers they weren't rich investors they weren't land speculators they might have owned a lot of land but that was about it and land didn't have that much of value back
then. historian forrest macdonald did an exhaustive analysis of each state that ratified the constitution and looked at the makeup of the delegates and what they did for a living as mcdonnell found in for example delaware seventy seven percent of the delegates were farmers and we're not talking rich farmers in fact two thirds of those farmers had meager incomes between seventy five cents and five dollars a week only twenty three percent of the delegates were professionals people like lawyers doctors and judges not one delegate was a banker not one was a manufacturer not one was a rich merchant not one the same was true in new jersey were sixty four percent of the delegates were farmers point is the people who hammered out and then ratified the constitution weren't thinking about money in fact they had such a strong feeling of history and destiny that it at times overwhelmed though their writing show that they truly believe they were doing sacred work something greater
than themselves greater than their personal interests and even greater than the interests of their wealthy constituents back at home that's why the constitutional convention was held in secret behind locked doors and it's why james madison didn't publish his own notes of who said what at the constitutional convention until eighteen forty just after the last of the other participants die simply put the wealthier men among the delegates were be train the interests of their own economic class and they didn't want others in their class to know about it they were voting for democracy instead of oligarchy they were voting to create and maintain a middle class instead of creating a nation of by and for the rich. as thomas jefferson said experience declares that man is the only animal which devours his own kind for i can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor and that liberty is pure
which is to go to all and not to the few or the rich alone and i am not among those who fear the people they and not the rich are our dependence for continued freedom and those seeking profits where they given total freedom would not be the ones to trust to keep government pure and our right secure indeed it has always been those seeking wealth who are the source of corruption in government jefferson even warned us that we should never never ever in his words quote be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow sufferers and quote people for some reason think the constitution said that only rich white male landowners could vote but none of those things are anywhere in the constitution while our new country was far from perfect in many of the states in
our early years women voted blacks voted and even people who lived in the poor houses the george washington appropriated federal money to pay for the voted although over time most of the states individually took away the many of those rights the way scott walker in wisconsin is trying to right now prevent students minorities in the elderly people from voting in that state none of that was or is in the constitution the framers were of lighton era idealists who really believed they were creating a better world for all and their decision to create a democracy in america was not easy. as john quincy adams who fought tirelessly to end slavery in the southern states said posterity you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom i hope you will make good use of it today our lawmakers could learn
a lot from our founding fathers these were people who didn't send others kids off to war but fought it themselves these were people who didn't give kickbacks to the bankers and robber barons but fought to restrain the power of banks and business these are people who didn't get richer and richer the longer they stayed in office but who usually retired from public office broke these were people who risked it all and in some cases gave it all up for the best interests of this nation we need that same mentality from our lawmakers today to put our government back into the hands of the people go to move to amend to work. that's the big picture for tonight for more information on the stories we've covered visit our website some thom hartmann dot com free speech dot org and archie dot com also check out our two you tube channels there are links of thom hartmann dot com this entire show is also available as a free video podcast on i tunes and we have a free tom hartman i phone or i pad app and the app store has sent us feedback on
twitter at tom underscore our facebook atomosphere of our blogs message boards a telephone comment line at tom hartman. and no forget them ocracy begins when you show up begins with you begin when you participate get out there and get active tag your it will see you next week you know the. wealthy british sign on some time to write a little. market
well kind of a lot of show we'll get the real headlines with none of the mercy or can live in washington d.c. now that i'm going to speak to daniel ellsberg bradley manning enters a quarter for the first time in the eighteen months of his detention and while the most damning charges against him could result in a death sentence we're going to ask if this kind of whistle blowing really deserves a medal that we've documented to you that in the last ten years more than four hundred terrorism related cases have been prosecuted in our civilian courts but is the word terrorism being applied when.